Diversity is More Than a Buzzword (w/ Gail Perry-Mason & Mark S. Lee)

Imagine yourself in a world of open-armed opportunities for all. It’s what we all say we want. However, there still exist many shallow, external factors that people consciously or unconsciously use to exclude others. Why do humans do this? Why not take the strengths and perspectives of people of various ages, races, genders, and backgrounds and use their viewpoints to enhance our communities, organizations, businesses, and our lives? Sometimes we just need a little help learning how to do this, and this episode shows us how and why we can effectively make positive changes.

We invited two guests who have advanced the DEI:  diversity, equity, and inclusion movement. They are successful professionals in the Detroit, Michigan area who have much to say about the challenges they’ve witnessed and faced themselves. Gail Perry-Mason is a financial advisor and executive, an author and philanthropist. She founded of Money Matters for Youth, which helps kids with financial awareness and literacy.  Mark S. Lee is President & CEO, The LEE Group, a strategic marketing consulting firm.  He's also an educator at three different universities and a dynamic radio host. Both have stories that will enlighten, challenge, inspire and instruct.

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GAIL PERRY-MASON ON LINKEDIN 

MONEY MATTERS FOR YOUTH 

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Transcript

Sandy Kovach  [00:00:01]:

Welcome to Imagine Yourself podcast where we help you imagine the next chapter of life with grace, gratitude, courage and faith

Lanée Blaise [00:00:09]:

Thanks for joining us here at Imagine Yourself. I'm Lanee here with Sandy, and today, we're imagining ourselves Trying to put together a magnificent puzzle, but we realize that all of the puzzle pieces we've gathered are exactly The same size, shape, color, and image with no diversity at all. And when you have no diversity, equity, or inclusion, it makes for a very unsuccessful and unfulfilling puzzle. So, Sandy, I think we will need to bring some experts today to help us as we discuss some very important elements and benefits of DEI.

Sandy Kovach  [00:00:51]:

Yeah. And we did bring in some heavy hitters. First of all, I'll introduce Mark s Lee. He is the President and CEO of The Lee Group, a strategic marketing consulting firm. He's also an educator that teaches at Three different universities, EMU, Madonna, and Northwood. He's also a radio host, and I have actually had the honor of being on his show. It's Called In the Conference Room with Marcus Lee on 9:10 AM Superstation, and he's spoken out a lot on this issue. He's been on PBS Speaking on this issue. And then we have the legendary Gail Perry Mason. She is a financial expert, author, speaker, philanthropist. She has a special heart for youth. She founded the widely acclaimed Money Matters For Youth. She has a number of awards and accolades, including most recently being voted one of the 100 most influential Women by Cranes. She's Detroit royalty. In fact, actually, both Mark and Gail are Detroit royalty. And if you're from Detroit area, you may know that. If not, you are about to be introduced to some major players who have a lot to say on many things, including this issue. Mark, Gail, welcome to Imagine Yourself.

Mark Lee [00:02:13]:

Thank you. And and thank you as well. And first of all, let me just, appreciate seeing my good friend, Gail. We go way back, Yes, Sandy. It's always good hearing your voice and seeing you. And, Renee, it's very nice to meet you as well. Thanks for having me.

Lanée Blaise [00:02:25]:

We are so happy to have you. We have Questions and conversations ready to roll. I wanna start off though by saying, personally, I feel like more and more, I find myself in seminars and webinars and panels and discussions that are Ordinarily, you know, focused on business growth or media endeavors or health care initiatives, industries that traditionally would never bring up Diversity, equity, and inclusion. But lately, I hear it coming up voluntarily in almost every arena as a thing to consider when reaching for overall success. Now do you all think that this means That these conversations prove that we're making real progress and that change is really happening in our culture, or am I just getting myself all excited and overly mystic for something that's not there yet. So I'll let either one of you take a stab at that.

Gail Perry Mason [00:03:24]:

But you wanna go, Mark? You want me to go 1st. Which one?

Mark Lee [00:03:27]:

Go first, Gail. You go right ahead.

Gail Perry Mason [00:03:29]:

Alright. Well, you know what? People will talk about it, but I think Being inclusive and talking about DEI, because it's like, right now I don't know. Mark, I'm sure you will agree with me. I think I heard you say this before. It's just like a buzzword. It's just like it's something to say. I think diversity and inclusion is when Now what they're talking about is being invited to the party, but inclusion is being asked to dance. I think, okay. We're gonna invite you, but guess what? We're not gonna ask you to dance. It's just like it's no it's no sense in coming. So people talk about it, but we're not getting asked to dance. And I don't know if you agree with me, Mark, but that's the way I look at it.

Mark Lee [00:04:10]:

I have several thoughts on this. I've written about it. I've talked about it.

Gail Perry Mason [00:04:13]:

You have. You Yeah.

Mark Lee [00:04:15]:

There's a 3rd component called equity, and equity is being a part owner as well. So let me just kinda rewind and take to about 2 years ago, well, this really exploded as a direct result of the whole George Floyd situation. And what happened is after George Floyd As we found so many organizations coming out and providing these things called commitment statements. I'm committed to this. I'm committed to that. Right? We're committed to bringing people to the table. And the Navy gets to a point, we're not even close to where we need to be. Because here's what happened with the commitment statements. People came out It talked about the organizational commitment, and I actually did this. I've written about it in the free press and other forms of media, and I talked about it. It's a true story. So I went to that organization who wrote the commitment statement, and I pulled up their website. And they said, we wanna have a diverse team, and we have a diverse leadership, and we Every member of the executive leadership team was Caucasian. And so here I am coming out talking about diversity, equity, and the conclusion, and you're writing a commitment statement, But there's a gap right there, so that's issue number 1. And organizations had the they were jumping on the bandwagon. I say that respectfully Because there was a lot of emotion involved 2 years ago. Alright. And let's see what happened over the last couple of years. Right after George Floyd's situation, According to LinkedIn, the number of DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion jobs, increased by 61%. Think about that for a second. Increased by 61% 12 months after George Floyd. That's great, you would think.

Lanée Blaise [00:05:46]:

Yeah.

Mark Lee [00:05:46]:

Here's the issue. A lot of the people who are getting those opportunities were not prepared to take over in that space. And I don't facts that people are being hired with no experience in that background, so it was a knee jerk reaction. So let's bring this to the 2022 where we are today. Where we are today is that and, Gail, you're right. It's been a buzzword. There's still a lot of talk about it. The difference is We have to figure out how to take it from the talking stage, from talking the talk, to walking the walk. And that's where organizations are still grappling with it. And I could actually say the last thing I would say about why do you wanna do this, Mark? It's very simple from a business standpoint. It's been according to Boston Consulting Group, If you have a diverse leadership team, and I've said those leadership teams in my corporate life. If you have a diverse leadership team, We have a 17% more revenue opportunity. In other words, you can generate 17% more business than if you have a homogeneous team. Why? Because people wanna do business with people that represent them, organizations that represent them. So the bottom line for saying all that is, are we where we need to be? Absolutely not. Do we still have a long ways to go? Yes. We do.

Gail Perry Mason [00:07:00]:

And you know what, Lynnae? I just I wanna add to that, Sandy and Lynnae and Mark. Just one thing. Like, I talk about, you know, investments every single day of my life.

Mark Lee [00:07:08]:

Yes.

Gail Perry Mason [00:07:08]:

And the only way during this turbulent market, during anything, our only portfolio that does well is a diverse portfolio. That's it. So it's the same exact thing. So people will diversify their money in a minute to say all the wealthy. That's what they do. All people at the top. What do they do? They diversify. And that's the only way we have a safety net. That's the only portfolio that does well. Same thing that Mark said. When you have More of a diverse board, a diverse staff, a diverse c suite. The company always does better. It's a win win for society. It's a win win for our economy. It's a win win, but we don't do it. I don't know why.

Mark Lee [00:07:49]:

One of the whys is that people still refuse to change. And what I mean by that is is I actually go to experiences. I've given talks So many I don't have no idea how many talks I've given. But I would tell you, I've had people call me after one of my talks, And they will say we love what you're saying, but the biggest issue is that the organization is that we've talked to our employees, and many people ask a very simple question. Why do I need to do this? And so a lot of the employees, and not the majority, but a select few that vocal minority in Oakland attended. But My point is they refuse to change. They don't see the value in it. And I get phone calls from DEI practitioners from across the country. I got one the other day from somebody in Florida who expressed the exact same frustration. They're banging their heads up against the wall. They've gone into these organizations, And the top management will say the right thing, but as you drill down into the organization, the actions and the words don't match. And so a lot of the employees at the world level, And I say, world level, respectfully, again, at all levels of the organization, don't feel like they don't see the value in Because they're inside their bubble, and therefore, I'm happy inside my bubble. I don't wanna work with Sandy. I don't wanna work with Gail. I don't wanna work with Danae. I'm comfortable where I am today. And that's one of the reasons why organizations still grapple with getting over that hump of getting to the next level of truly Diversifying your workforce is a maximizing potential profit and business opportunity.

Sandy Kovach  [00:09:16]:

I heard you talk about this more too on PBS, and you've Said a lot about the importance of leadership here that sometimes when we do get A good amount of diversity in an organization, it's because of the lack of it, maybe, in upper management that has the big impact, and maybe that's why we're not seeing it the way we should.

Mark Lee [00:09:39]:

You have people still saying that yes. A great question. I have talked about it. People talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. And I will give an example right now. I think it's very germane to the conversation. I clearly can't obviously, I can't say who it is. This is very true story. There was a big meeting. Organizations going through this major diversity, equity, and inclusion, and they're all excited about it. So leadership tells them we're gonna do this. This is important. It makes businesses. Now the senior leader who runs the organization the entire organization decides he's gonna make a promotion. There are 3 people up for promotion. 1 is African American with great experience, number of years of experience, highly rated, both self rated and by a supervisor, highly rated off the chart. A white female, a Caucasian female, who's only been in a very limited amount of time, and another individual, a white male, who's been there for a long time. So what I'm going through the story is the 2 caucasians got promoted to the executive leadership of the organization, And the African American or person of color, they have more experience, got higher rating, did not get the job. Literally walked into this individual's office, the senior Leader's office has said, I quit. I'm out the door. He said, your words don't matter to me. And the individual says, why? You said you're talking a game. You got an opportunity. He says, I was rated off the charts, but yet I didn't get the job. Individual left and got a phone call from the senior officer later who's been texting and texting and calling. Finally, he says, I'm so sorry. I made the worst mistake in my life. And what this individual said was, you were spot on. We're talking about it. I got a person right here who's very qualified, And I think that give that person a job. Now here's the here's the repercussions of that. The person came back, got the promotion, But is he committed to the organization? Absolutely not. And is this individual now committed to diversity? No. From his perspective, yes. But he's questioning the value of leadership's commitment to DEI. So you just can't talk about it. You have to have the actions that are consistent with your words.

Gail Perry Mason [00:11:47]:

I know. Be about it. Right? If you can't talk about it, you gotta be about it.

Mark Lee [00:11:51]:

Tell me about it.

Lanée Blaise [00:11:53]:

Yeah. So now you have me thinking something totally different now too. So as far as words that matter as far as making sure that you do what you say you're gonna do and what you say you're committed to. But also what about language in general. Like I said, I've been watching all these different, discussions play out. I know that Netflix has this new workplace initiative Where they are changing the terminology also instead of saying that a new potential work hire is a good culture fit. They wanna say they're a good culture ad, and it's that language. Also, this is not exactly about race or gender, but Harvard Medical is changing the wording when they talk about their patients. Doctors would no longer would at least aim to no longer say, Oh, you are morbidly obese. I just feel like that's devastatingly harsh and negative, but change the language to you have obesity. So when you say things like culture fit, where, you know, you want to fit into what we've got here, uniformity, versus culture add when you want to Add value by bringing in others. What do you all think about the effect that language has on Diversity, equity, inclusion for people who seem resistant.

Gail Perry Mason [00:13:16]:

I think language is good. I mean, I think we should change language. Which I'll put it that way, Mark. I'm sure we'll agree on this, of course. But it still might it won't change the mindset sometimes. Even though we change the language because we're told to change the language. Like, you're a good culture fit.

Gail Perry Mason [00:13:37]:

you know, but I don't wanna be a fit. I want to be part of the fabric, and I think we need to make people the part of the fabric. People look at you. Oh, you're a diversity hire. It's so bad. And I think that that's a whole another thing too. But people who are hired because that are looked upon by the other employees is, oh, that's why they're here. It's because they're African American as a diversity hire. No. And like you said, their credentials like Mark was saying, this 1 young lady who you were talking young man, young lady, this who you were talking about, You know, I had all the credentials in the world and didn't get it. And then sometimes it say would've gotten it right away or the reason they came back It's because now is a culture fit or they're worried about a lawsuit and both. I mean, both. I mean, that's it. Oh, I'm worried about getting sued now, so I'm gonna do this. So I think we need to look at it. How do we change the mindset of the people in the c suite? How do we change the mindset and the hearts and let them see that you look at they look at numbers all day. And when they look at numbers, don't lie. They say, wait a minute. They'll look at it as a profit to their company, but also look at that person what they're bringing to the table. I think people don't have their hearts and their minds open up. I really believe that they don't George Floyd didn't do it. And if that didn't do it, I don't know what will. And I think this is why we have the imagine yourself podcast because we gotta imagine a whole new world Where there is inclusion, there is equity. There is that. We do have to imagine that, and we have to be that and keep teaching other people. Like Sandy, you could teach it everywhere because your heart has always been open for so many years. You are a prime Example of you you walk the talk. You walk. You talk it. But you've been doing it Ever since I've known you, that's all you have done. You loved everybody for who they are, and you included everyone. And so I just think we need more examples like Sandy.

Sandy Kovach  [00:15:52]:

Oh, thank you for saying that.

Mark Lee [00:15:54]:

So the 4 of us on this call today, As far as this podcast, we're all bringing unique perspective. Now Gail is speaking. She's opening up my eyes. Sandy's speaking, opening up my eyes. Lanee is.. that's what and that's the beauty of diversity. We have to get beyond just talking about it based on race. And what we have to begin to focus on is based on people's experiences. And that's why from a business standpoint, you have a 17% revenue increase Opportunity. Because I have my MBA at Northwestern University in Chicago, Kellogg, and all that stuff. I've run from this the most famous advertising campaigns in the country I've been involved in. And one of the things that I would make sure I do is I had to make sure I talk to different audiences with respect and dignity, and that's what diversity brings. So we gotta get beyond just thinking about black and white and understand that diversity is about ideas, people, backgrounds. You can be straight. You don't have to be straight. You can live in a suburb. You can live in the city. It doesn't matter. We all bring experiences, and that is what diversity is.

Gail Perry Mason [00:16:56]:

Yeah. And that's how we add value. You know, I run the I you know, I do the money camp. I've been doing it for years. The first thing all of my young people have to learn is the word opportunity. In the word opportunity is the word unity. You cannot have any opportunity Without coming together, without unity. That's the only way that is a complete word is if you add the unity to it. And the other thing, my young people are value investors. And Mark talked about value and how we all add value. So we talk about finding the value in each other before we even find the value of the dollar. Like, how can we create an opportunity By finding the value in each other. So in my camp, that's how people win money, our young investors, is by finding the value in each other. And that's the experiences that they have. They're life experiences and everything. Like, when people, you know, you're talking about my title today. It was like, I I always have what I wanna do for a living versus what I do for a life. And I think what we do for a life is what adds value to every organization. And this includes and I think diversity and inclusion, all this stuff like you said. It's not only the people who work there, but it's the customers too.

Gail Perry Mason [00:18:11]:

That's another thing. I think that we just we almost like, wait a minute. Who are our customers? How can we gain more customers? Now who's everybody marketing to? Mark knows probably better than anyone all the stats on who everybody markets to. Who spends the most money? What race of people? And it's most it's minorities. It's not just blacks. Mhmm. It's minorities. You know all those numbers probably, you know, off the top of your head. So I don't know all the numbers, but I do know that That's how our consumers' numbers, they're based on what we spend. I mean, this is a win win. It's all about numbers. Numbers don't lie, But our hearts and our minds do.

Lanée Blaise [00:18:54]:

Yeah. And you said it too because when you are marketing for whatever you're marketing for, for your podcast or for your business or, for whatever new systems in place. You need to make sure that you have some people on your team who have some varied experiences Who can perhaps catch you when you're about to make a blunder as far as, you know and I I mean, this as far as there have been Marking campaigns with H&M clothing stores, and they may not have had anyone on their team to catch some of these things. And then when it became public, It's like, why would you have put that advertisement out knowing how offensive it is? They didn't realize how offensive. Yeah.

Gail Perry Mason [00:19:35]:

It caused It definitely caused them. Yes.

Mark Lee [00:19:38]:

We we had a major major campaign here in Detroit. That's all I would say.

Gail Perry Mason [00:19:42]:

I knew I knew you were gonna say that. I knew you

Mark Lee [00:19:43]:

were gonna say that. I knew you were gonna say that. I knew you were gonna say that. I got I got so many phone calls about that campaign, and, clearly, there were so many mistakes made in that campaign. A beloved organization, so, again, I'm not gonna indict them publicly. But the point is you're in a city that's 80% African American In a metropolitan area that's 25% diverse, essentially, and they're clearly the people who approve the campaign. And they called me and said, what do we do? I said, well, first of all, Who's on your team reviewing these campaigns? And the people who reviewed the campaign, they did not have the 1st people reviewing the campaign. This campaign went up, and Gail knows exactly what I'm talking about. It went up in downtown Detroit, and people started looking at it. They said, this is basically the theme line. This is our city. And People who live in the city in the metropolitan area, I was born and raised on the west side. I'm thinking, that ain't my city. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Here. And so many and many people who saw that were offended by that. Now why did that happen? And that gets a part of the conversation. So you get many sets of eyes and people Looking at it and talking about it, and that's how you begin to minimize those types of issues. And I gotta say this about my dad. You know, I don't talk about my whole life, but My mom and dad came to Detroit 1957 from the secondary to the south, and my father had 2 degrees by the time he was 21 years And he got a job in Detroit as a bank teller. The only reason he got a job was able to get a job as a bank teller in 1957, Remember, 2 degrees, any other person who'd been in a management training program, is that he was light skinned by complexion. So they put him on the front lines Because he would be perceived as not threatening white people, versus if they put a darker skinned African American on a a total lie, the perception back then is that that person was a threat to white people. My mom then, after I shared that story, she said, I'm gonna tell you another story. I said, what's that? She said when my father was, Working another branch in the city, that there were these 3 Polish women who walked in and just stared at him. And it was just a woman. They're staring at him. Again, he's my complexion. They were trying to say he can't be black. He's too white skin. See, they can understand the different shadiness of blackness, of of being an African American as well. So I say that to say to my father's mindset that my brothers and I will all support it, my mother, of course. That's why my father has instilled in me This concept called diversity. He spent his entire career he's a very successful banker. You all know that. Many of the most legendary bankers in Detroit are here because of him. But my father Started as a bank seller and worked his way up to the highest ranking African American banker in the country Yeah. And in the city of Detroit. And he brought along with him Dave Bing. Bing used to work for him because Bing could not get money from other institutions, but my father took care of him. Meaning, he granted him money, so he's buy his first house. And so that's why we talk about diversity is you're working with people that can relate to you. So my father always said he's gonna reach back and help other people. So where am I going with all this? He did that. He continues to do it. And that's what we need to do today. In the business environment, no matter how successful we might be, We have to somehow reach back and pull that person behind us, next to us, and ahead of us. And then that's how we start to get to that next level of success And diversity. So I stand on my father's shoulders. I stand on Gail's shoulders for what she's doing in the state of Detroit as well in metropolitan area.

Gail Perry Mason [00:22:58]:

And we all sit on your dad's shoulders. When I met him, I was just, Like, in awe. Like, wow. This is mister Lee. Like, I mean, when you meet someone who's an icon, And I was so excited just to sit at the table when we were on, I think, Blockchain, but I forgot where we were. And it was probably one of the most look at all of these Individuals that are African Americans that are doing well, and your dad was at the head of the table. And the one thing that he Did he always allow others to have a seat at the table with them? And that's one thing that I learned. If I have a seat at the table, I always have a plus one strategy. I always bring other people to the table with me, and then I always teach my young people. Matter of fact, we do TikTok videos now on sending the elevator. I know how to do TikTok. Okay. But I don't really know how to do it. They do it. But, anyway but

Sandy Kovach  [00:23:48]:

Look at you.

Gail Perry Mason [00:23:49]:

The elevator back down. Like, we go on. Like, I get on 1st, and then the next generation gets on, and then the younger other younger person gets on. So I have somebody in their thirties come on after me and somebody because they are but all African Americans. But the thing is, I go on the elevator first, and I sit them back down, And then they go to the level higher than me, and then the younger person goes to the level higher than them. And I think that's what we need to do. We always need to send the elevator back down Starting with Mark's dad, Mark and Harvey's dad, he always did that. And I think he planted those seeds, and I think we have to keep planting them in other people's heart. He did it for everyone. He made sure people in HR who were hiring people were African American. I'll never forget that. So I just think we need more of what your dad already planted in this world.

Mark Lee [00:24:40]:

That's what you're doing. Think about going forward, as we think about where do we go from here, it's exactly what we need to do. I think one of the most, I'm not a politician. I don't talk politics in a radio show, and I don't usually talk politics publicly. I have to because I own my own business, but I will say this. One other thing I will say about the state of the city address It's when the mayor acknowledged all of the development that's taking place in the city. And he reached back and talked about the number of African American developers. And, you know, and helping rebuild the city, and we all live here, we love it here, and things like that. And the way he did it was very powerful. And there are so many women who are making a difference in in this city, in our lives. There are so many young people, and that's what we haven't started to do. We need just to continue In the business space personally is bringing these people along, and let them share their stories. Don't let Mark and Gail tell people what to do, but let the other people who are engaged in the process Share their experiences. And then once we do that, then we'll get to the next level and hopefully get to where it's no longer just words, But truly actions that are truly making a difference.

Sandy Kovach  [00:25:45]:

Absolutely. And if somebody does wanna get in touch with either one of you, I just wanna Get some information out there. Now, Gail, money matters for youth. You've been doing that 26 years. I don't think you're so you've been doing it since you were 5. Right?

Gail Perry Mason [00:25:59]:

Yeah. There you go. There you go. Yeah. 27 years. And now, you know, the house in Detroit, Bass Blue, The women's? Yes. So Bass Blue is where Money Camp started when Josephine Love was there. And so it's like life full circle. We actually started right there 27 years ago in that home. And now, you know, I'm part of bass blue community, and it's just like, every time I walk through the doors, I just wanna cry, like, wow. This is where I have all the young people. This is what I did. So this time, I'm gonna do a tea for all the young girls there this summer for money camp. So we're gonna do that. We're gonna go to bass blues. I'm I'm excited about that. So Get them all pearls. They'll wear my Oh. Yeah. So we're gonna do that. But but I'm really but I yeah. So that's but then we're gonna get in touch with.

Sandy Kovach  [00:26:47]:

Money Matters for you, that that website and then any other place where we can find, like, your book.

Gail Perry Mason [00:26:52]:

Yeah. Amazon, anywhere. Girl, make your money grow.

Sandy Kovach  [00:26:55]:

Girl, make your money grow. Yep. Okay. So because out of all this stuff, she's also a an amazing financial expert. So gonna put all of that at imagine yourself podcast .com, as well as Mark's information. Now, Mark, you're the president of a marketing group, and Is there any other information you wanna share, websites, whatnot?

Mark Lee [00:27:12]:

Sure. Thank you for the opportunity. My website is very simple. It's my last name. It's leegroup Innovation .com. That's leegroupinnovation.com. Innovation is singular. You can also follow me on Twitter. My Twitter handle is Lee Group, and also on Facebook, Mark s Lee. In LinkedIn, Mark s Lee.

Sandy Kovach  [00:27:34]:

Alright. Beautiful. And I know, Gail's on social media as well a lot with some very inspirational posts. I mean, I don't know how she finds time for all that. Early in

Gail Perry Mason [00:27:45]:

the morning, if you noticed.

Mark Lee [00:27:46]:

I know. Alright. Alright. That's what I did.

Sandy Kovach  [00:27:50]:

So both Mark and Gail are great follows on social media. Recommend now Linae, do we have anything else before we wrap and

Lanée Blaise [00:27:57]:

Just wanna say as our little takeaway, we just love to hear One thing from Gail and one thing from Mark that we need people to walk away with before we end today. Just some Piece of information to take with them as we try to live out diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Gail Perry Mason [00:28:17]:

I would just say that If you don't include others and if you not diversify, you're gonna be poor. Poor means passed over opportunity repeatedly. It means we're passing over good people.

Mark Lee [00:28:32]:

What I would simply say, embrace the opportunity. Don't look at it as a a closed door. It's not a closed doors and open door, embrace the opportunity to learn from other people, experiences, and backgrounds. And as a result of that, we'll all be better off As a country, as a people, and and from a business standpoint, it's supposed to embrace the opportunity.

Lanée Blaise [00:28:53]:

We love that. We just wanna truly thank you both For giving enlightenment and encouragement and empowerment today to anyone who is listening. We need this type of knowledge and awareness and Strategies if we're ever gonna truly advance. So, overall, everyone, please imagine yourself thinking and speaking And being more cognizant of your own ability to identify with others, to ally with others in ways that will add Value that will add diversity, equity, and inclusion because when we know better, we will do better. So thank you

Mark Lee [00:29:34]:

Oh, thank you. My question.

Sandy Kovach  [00:29:35]:

Thanks to everybody for taking the time to listen today. We've got more information on both Gail and Mark, including how to follow them on social media at imagine yourself podcast.com. We hope you'll give us a follow as well, and give us some feedback. Leave us a review or connect with us on one of our platforms, Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. You can find all those links as well as a link to subscribe to our blog and podcast at imagine yourself podcast